Going Epic: What does this mean?

[Starshadow]

Let's forget about the fact, for a moment, that going epic requires a new book. We can work around that for those who can't afford to buy one. Instead, let us look at the greater implications.

The current plot line involves the party resolving a major plot event at level 19 or 20, 20 being the last level you can attain under standard rules. Whether that plot ends in success or the annihilation of the party is irrelevant to the fact that, if you do survive, what will you do next.

There are sevaral options, and you need to begin thinking about them.

One: Retire the characters to a life of luxury, service and NPCdom in the world. Kick back and enjoy your rewards and know that you essentially, "Won the Game". Your characters will be safe and sound living it up in style, awaiting future characters to visit you.

Two: Retire SOME of the party, including one of the two characters some of you are running. You can even break out an old retired character to take its place, for example Celene retires but Gwylln comes back, or Shanti being replaced by Merilin.

THREE: Risk everything for ultimate danger and fabulous wealth as you move on to face major demons, ancient dragons, epic monsters (perhaps the Tarrasque or some such) and a much greater possibility of death (even permenent death) at the hands of creatures that can kill you with a single lucky blow or spell. If you go epic, there will be no coddling and few escape hatches or back doors. Epic means going where no man has gone before, and that the DM pulls out all the stops. It is not a chance for me to TRY to kill you, but I will no longer have to frantically look for excuses for you to reroll that save or fudge the dice on my end to prevent a wipe. In short, it's the big leagues against ultimate evil.

Why bring this up? Necause of the old.."I don't want my character to die" scenario. Players get down right pissy and depressed when their characters die, an irrational but understandable attachment to a fictional character that yields unexplainable real life depression. I won't put you in that position unless you go into it with eyes wide open. This is supposed to be fun, not traumatic.

Why go Epic? It's that, or retire, or merely never go up in level again. And while it is not imminent, it sure isn't more than 6 months off at the outside. And because it means that your DM must read and master an entirely new set of rules, I want to be sure people want this before we go into it. The reason for this post is so that you all understand the consequences of your actions.

Food for thought...and discussion.

[Lyssandra]

I remember we all ran from a Purple Worm when we arrived at the oracle's island. Such beasts will probably become our 'meat and potatoes' type foes when we go epic. When/if we get up there to level 30-40, we'll be virtually godlike in comparison to characters at the levels we are now.

I'm looking forward to the challenges personally. Bring on the band of 20+ hit die Titans. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Starshadow]

I certainly did not mean to point any fingers about who reacts what way. We all have different experiences, and I have been DMing for close to 30 years and have had well over 100 players in that time.

It is a serious thing, because our fantasy personas take so much of ourselves into them, and have taken so much of our time and energy. I certainly also did not mean to belittle people's emotions on the subject either. Everyone that has ever played at CFI has had some kind of emotional, mood-altering response to character trauma, whether it be death or the loss of a level. And everyone has had characters die, some of them permanently (or at least until the massive rebirth that took place.)

I brought this up so that you could explore these issues, and I respect everyone's individual decisions.

Which brings us to the next issue: What do we do when some want to go epic and some want to retire. The obvious answer would be to play another character. But what if there is no other character for a player? Shall we have characters of level 20 rolled up as if it is a new game, which it sort of is? I certainly don't want to lose players, even if we alternate lowbies and epics on alternate weeks. My experience is that players who play only every other week end up leaving altogether.

More food for thought and room for discussion.

[Dramavictim]

Given Kel's new situation, which, as a player, I'm quite delighted by (Outcast/Exile becomes honored hero becomes Leader is kind of a classic), I am still unsure. I'm leaning towards retiring him, because frankly, it seems like the Swiftfires will need him more and he can do more good there.

Mind you, I'm not set in stone on it. For one thing, if Kel does this, he'll have to seek out the high priest of Sol and free himself from a certain sword so someone more worthy can take it up. Yadda yadda.

However, IF I retire Kel, this leaves Thurvold to play, and while Thurvold wants to crank out magic items, there's no reason he has to retire yet. Other staff can be found to watch the academy while he goes on 'material component gathering' expeditions with the party. If he dies, well, at least its better than some novels where dwarfs seem around only for that purpose. [img]wink.gif[/img]

What's more, he's a middle aged dwarf, and may have numerous kin and Clan already about. Even if he dies, there's no reason I can't make his sons, nephews, etc for lower level games if a spot opens up.

[Carbon14sample]

I have lost two characters but dont ever recall getting pissy nor depressed. I laughed when you sent me a tell saying dont get mad when notified that Thay failed his saving throw and was about to die. But I do admit to an attachment to my characters, especially the two that I lost. Yet through the grace of fortune or your kindness they again drew breath.

I am competitive and do not like failure and after reading your warning on what to expect playing at epic levels has giving me alot to think about. I am retiring Thaylias.
Good day.

[Lyssandra]

I like the idea of new characters created with Epic rules for those who want to retire. Tindale does offer a safe haven for the retirees.

Bear in mind too that the feats and such for epic characters build upon the feats of normal characters, and we'll have ten or so regular feats by level 20, so creating a level 21 character from scratch might actually be a bit harder, what with the huge amount of skill points and feats, than a normal character.

[Tarracat]

If Thay were to retire I would likewise retire Shanti, though I was not planning on it I would certainly do so.

As for epic, any possibility of us taking our mid lowbies in with the higher ups that want to play epic, it would get them there faster, though on a more dangerous road, is it all or nothing? Lyra would certainly be able to go that route, or bump them a few levels so they are closer but not quite epic yet either?

[Starshadow]

My mistake. I actually anticipated that you would reach 20 within six months, the last level before hitting Epic.

For the record, I expect a major plot line to be completed while you are level 20, something that sort of closes the book on the past 4 years of play. If I were planning on stopping CFI, I would do so after that event...but I am not planning any such thing as along as there is desire from players to move forward.

And Kel, I would not make you a chief without additional plans, so don't go giving away that sword just yet...trust me, you will need it.

The king has a mission for you to start very soon. You are not out of the woods yet as far as danger is concerned. You had best meet it head on before it comes to New Tindale to meet you!

[Lyssandra]

My comment about six months seeming a bit overzealous was based on an average award of 3,000 XP to the characters per month (1,000 per game session with 3 sessions per month. One week/month has been for the lower level group)...so that would come out to 22 months to earn an additional 66,000 XP points and reach level 21. Of course, larger awards for quest completion will shorten that time.

Good point about the newest mission. Allie and Celene aren't quite ready to rest on their laurels yet. We've still got a lot of play in these characters until we need to make the definite decisions about retiring or advancing to Epic.

[Lyssandra]

Players might also consider giving their characters skill points in some sort of craft or profession at this point if they've not already gotten any.

Those planning to retire (except perhaps Baron Thaylias) will need some sort of mundane skills to continue paying their own way during their retirement, to avoid boredom if anything else, even though selling off unused armor and weapons, etc will enable any of us to live comfortably. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Incidentally, six months for us to reach level 20 seems a little over zealous, unless we are going to be given some very large XP awards in the near future:

Allie and Celene are at 144,000 xp. It will take 190,000 xp to reach level 20...then 210,000 xp to reach level 21, the start of Epic level.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 17, 2007 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Lyssandra ]</font>